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the_safehouse

Santa_pros and Summer_of_78 - and metafandom! Our Pros-y past...

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22 November 2011 | 12:47
posted by: byslantedlight in the_safehouse

For various reasons I was looking for a comment thread from way back in 2005, at santa_pros, but found to my dismay that not only all comments, but all entries from the comm seem to have been deleted - argh! The same (bar one entry) has happened at summer_of_78. Both were comms set up by goodnightlady (previously queenbamfie, now lj-user-someone-else), who was the sole maintainer, and whose lj-of-the-time was deleted.

I had thought that the various Pros ljs would be around virtually forever - or at least longer than five years - but I guess that's not right. Unless maybe in this case it's because the sole maintainer was deleted, and there was no one else to whom lj could assign ownership of the comms, so they were considered defunct? Which in one way they were, but in another way they were a fab archive of fic, and a snapshot of Pros-fandom-in-time, and I'm sorry we've lost that...

Why am I posting about it? I don't know really - but I don't think I'm the only person to value our Pros fandom history, and maybe what I want to say is - we'd better try to keep an eye on it, to save what we can when we can, because the internet is ephemeral, however busy and crowded it seems to be...

And on another questioning note - does anyone know what's happened to metafandom? There doesn't seem to have been a post there for ages, but I've not found any explanation for it, or place they might have moved, or...?

ETA - I've now discovered that goodnightlady/queenbamfie's posts and comments seem to have disappeared from all over lj - she was mod of the Safehouse, but there's now no evidence of that! Various comments she made to me in my own lj have been deleted too - I presume that her journal was deleted and then purged by lj and it took all her posts/comments with it. Not something I thought would happen when ljs were purged, though I suppose it rather has to, or else things would get very complicated for the person taking over the lj-name. But gargh!

Link | R/T open |

Comments {79}

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 13:21 (UTC)
Link

The history of Pros as a fandom is just fascinating - I love reading back over the archives and old posts and Yahoo group discussions. Then you can get into the letterzines, and letters of comment sent to zines, and - oh, it's so interesting! And for all the old letterzines etc can be hard to get hold of, they're clearly so much more stable and enduring than our ephemeral lj!

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londonronnie

(no subject)

from: londonronnie
date: 22 November 2011 13:09 (UTC)
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It does seem odd to leave the comm in existence but to delete all the posts. What's the point in that? And I wonder why a single solitary post was left in the summer_of_78 comm? Doesn't really make much sense to me, but maybe I'm missing something blatantly obvious...

Hopefully the fic that was posted to those comms was also preserved at the Hatstand or Circuit Archive, and also on the Proslib CD.

It's certainly unsettling to think how many Prosfic gems might have been lost though.

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 13:37 (UTC)
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I can only assume it's something to do with assigning owners to the comms - but I don't think they've been purged, cos they'd surely appear as struck out..? I wonder if I'm missing something blatantly obvious too! I've actually just thought to open a support request asking about it, and if there's any way of recovering them, so we'll see what they say, though I'm not hopeful. It might be that deleting the entries etc is the first step to purging them - presumably goodnightlady would have been notified, except that she'd deleted her lj!

I think alot of the fic was archived elsewhere, but some wasn't - I remember noticing that when I was linking stories to palelyloitering... oh, I've just realised, it'll be full of broken links now - waaah!

It's the missing comments and other record of what was going on in Pros fandom then that I'm sorry to lose too. D'you remember the big debate/faff about constructive criticism that came up from one of the posts, which went on for ages and ages, and was eventually metafandommed? I remember there being some interesting views and thoughts there (amidst, granted, some yelling *headdesk*), and that was what I was looking for when I popped over... Oh, and I don't think those banners will have been archived elsewhere, will they, and there were some really nice ones...

Hmmn - then again, I vaguely remember printing out every fic, so maybe I do at least have the stories in that form... back in Alaska, of course... *g*

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snail

(no subject)

from: snailbones
date: 22 November 2011 13:45 (UTC)
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I think it was before my time too - I don't recall reading it, and I'm not sure I had any interaction with goodnightlady either. It'd be a real shame if it's all gone for good.

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 13:50 (UTC)
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I'd just found Pros myself when santa_pros was running, I was too late to sign up for it (though I signed up for summer_of_78, and commented etc at santa_pros). The comm mod was called queenbamfie at the time, you might have come across her under that name, she was really leaving Pros already when she changed it, iirc...

But yeah, it would be a shame if it was gone for good - stoopid ephemeral internet! Just think, if a sunspot wiped out all the electronic records we use and keep, there'd be hardly anything of us left for the archaeologists to find - they'd think our culture was completely different...

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The new Salopian

(no subject)

from: constant_muse
date: 22 November 2011 15:57 (UTC)
Link

Interesting! and worrying indeed.

To try to keep things, one tends to link to them, or add to Memories - but that is of no avail if the original post is deleted.

I suspect it is related to the innovation of comm owners in addition to maintainers when LJ asked maintainers to nominate an owner. I bet it was in the fine print that if no one came forward as owner, and the maintainer no longer existed, then the comm would be deleted. But then why leave the comm in existence with its final post?

Do let us know what if any answer you get back from your support enquiry.

Edit: just had a look at metafandom which was new to me. Has it moved to DW? (but why no announcement?) Have you tried to contact one of the maintainers?

Edited at 2011-11-22 16:04 (UTC)

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 18:02 (UTC)
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Links are definitely my favourite way of finding things again - I print out what I can, but I can't print everything, and sometimes things are said in comments that you want to remember...

I don't think maintainers were asked to nominate owners though, comm owners were actually assigned by lj - generally to the person who actually created the comm, or else to the longest-serving maintainer if the creator was no longer a maintainer (iirc). Either way, though, if the sole maintainer was a deleted lj then there was no one to assign it to... I do wonder if it's in the process of being purged, and that's why the entries aren't there any more. I'll definitely let you know if I hear back from Support!

I searched all around for metafandom - it's also at DW and at JF, but neither has been updated any more recently. I'm just surprised, cos I thought it was a fairly big, busy concern and that someone would have queried the lack of activity... I haven't contacted anyone about it though, cos I was never a member or anything, and I'm really just passingly curious about that one! *g*

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Jack Regan

(no subject)

from: jack_regan
date: 22 November 2011 16:06 (UTC)
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And everyone wonders why I save everything offline.

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 18:04 (UTC)
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Lol - I certainly don't wonder why, and I do tend to print and/or save stories that I want to keep (and definitely have all those from the two comms somewhere). But I don't tend to save comment threads and things like that, as a general rule - clearly I should, if I could work out how to... *g*

So - are you telling me that you've got saved versions of both comms, by any chance, complete with those comment threads...? *vbg*

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sc_fossil

(no subject)

from: sc_fossil
date: 22 November 2011 19:01 (UTC)
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I don't remember either of those sites mentioned before and I can into Pros in 2006 via Pros-lit, and started my LJ in May, 2007. I'm guessing they were active before I came into Pros via LJ. I'm learning new things today. :)

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 20:03 (UTC)
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Yeah, the sites were both pre-2006... well, Summer_of_78 was in 2006, but santa_pros was definitely Christmas 2005, just after I set off in Pros. It's all so interesting - it's a shame they're not still there...

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HutchyNStarsk

(no subject)

from: hutchynstarsk
date: 22 November 2011 19:26 (UTC)
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How confusing....
Before my time, didn't even know these comms existed. I guess we all ought to remember to back up our work.

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 22 November 2011 20:04 (UTC)
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Lol - if you know a good way to back up an entire lj, then I'm all ears... *g*

Pros has been around for so long, there are loads of sites and ljs that are probably nearly forgotten by now...

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moth2fic

(no subject)

from: moth2fic
date: 22 November 2011 23:03 (UTC)
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I was a member of summer_of_78 and at one time of metafandom. I left the latter - I expect because there was no activity - but the Pros group is still on my f'list. Trouble is, I tend to filter comms from my daily f'list reading and only drop in from time to time so if a comm is inactive it will drop off my radar even if I'm still a member! I save fics to read offline but not the comments, so I have no records.

There should, perhaps, be some way of encouraging people to take on co-maintainers, even 'sleeping' ones, so that things don't disappear like this. Sad news, and perhaps a wake-up call. I agree I wouldn't expect something to disappear in five years, but if it only had one maintainer...

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 23 November 2011 11:07 (UTC)
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I suspect the problem is that way back then no one was thinking what will happen if the site disappears, and I'm not sure that every maintainer would care anyway... I think most Pros ljs have more than one maintainer, "awake" or sleeping... *g*

I'm so glad I only really have one fandom I follow - it means I have time to play with it properly (well... sometimes... *g*)

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Gilda Elise

(no subject)

from: gilda_elise
date: 23 November 2011 11:24 (UTC)
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I hadn't even thought about the conversation threads being lost. I dropped both comms awhile back, figuring nothing new was going to be posted. I did save the stories I liked, though. And didn't she also have a 'e-zine' of sorts going? A story with pictures that only had a couple of posts?

Anyway, it's another reason I still prefer groups. *g* People come and go from fandoms. A group is usually passed to someone else if the moderator gets tired of the job. But an LJ just sort of disappears.

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byslantedlight

(no subject)

from: byslantedlight
date: 23 November 2011 11:55 (UTC)
Link

A story with pictures that only had a couple of posts?
Yes - it was either a website or an lj/comm of its own, and I thought it was called pros_pics, but I can't find it now...

Anyway, it's another reason I still prefer groups.
Ah well, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but... I've just been trawling the Safehouse archives to find a link to pros_pics, and every single post and comment that queenbamfie made has been deleted. Gaaaaargh! So the comm is still here, but its history has been completely changed! I went exploring my own lj, where I knew she'd commented on various things - my replies are still there, but her comments have been deleted... It looks like her old account must have been purged from lj, but it's taken absolutely everything she ever said or did away - and I hate that! Not just for the lost fic (she took it down from the Circuit Archive, I seem to recall, though hopefully it'll still be on the CD) but because she played a big role in Pros for a time, and amongst other things was one of the reasons discoveredinalj and ci5hq both began - now the record of what led up to that has gone...

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Summer of 78 Story List & Fan Art List

from: taverymate
date: 24 November 2011 04:01 (UTC)
Link

OK, I got a bee in my bonnet once I started poking around in my files and miracle of miracles, most were even in their proper folders! So I whipped together a story list and list of fan art from the summer_of_78 fest. It was easiest to put the info into Notepad and cut & paste here. I'm sorry but I'm not taking the time right now to code the names to their LJ links. If I did, this likely wouldn't get posted. *sigh*

byslantedlight - please, feel free to use the list at Palely Loitering. I'm thinking that focusing first on the Fests would be easiest, with a separate page for each, e.g. Santa Pros Fest Story List, Summer of 78 Fest Story List. Trying to keep up with all the various LJ/DW communities where stories are posted would be a much bigger task - though interesting and useful. But a really, really big task!

Pros summer_of_78 Story List by Author
akin19sk wrote "Storm Bringers" for hisluvpet
alicambs wrote "Smoke Screen" for llamabitchyo
blktauna wrote "Not A Congo Line" for enednoviel
byslantedlight wrote "Return To Neverland" for llamabitchyo
carodee wrote "Fools in Paradise" for laceymcbain
empty_mirrors wrote "Betwix and Between" for akin16sk
faramir_boromir wrote "Four Hours On, Four Hours Off" for shayheyred
gilda_elise wrote "Only A Reflection" for shirasade
hisluvpet wrote "Careful Cultivation" for empty_mirrors
kiwisue wrote "Gods and Goddesses" for byslantedlight
laceymcbain wrote "Once In A Good Long While" for alicambs
llamabitchyo wrote "Four Days In August" for kiwisue
llamabitchyo wrote "Much Ado About Nothing" for thoraarwin
madmogs wrote "Reconnections" for przed
probodie wrote "What Lies Beneath" for gilda_elise
przed wrote "Light of Day" for madmogs
shayheyred wrote "Wrong" for faramir_boromir
shirasade wrote "Gut Reaction" for probodie
thoraarwin wrote "In The Dark" for carodee

Pros summer_of_78 List by Title
"Betwix and Between" by empty_mirrors for akin16sk
"Careful Cultivation" by hisluvpet for empty_mirrors
"Fools in Paradise" by carodee for laceymcbain
"Four Days In August" by llamabitchyo for kiwisue
"Four Hours On, Four Hours Off" by faramir_boromir for shayheyred
"Gods and Goddesses" by kiwisue for byslantedlight
"Gut Reaction" by shirasade for probodie
"In The Dark" by thoraarwin for carodee
"Light of Day" by przed for madmogs
"Much Ado About Nothing" by llamabitchyo for thoraarwin
"Not A Congo Line" by blktauna for enednoviel
"Once In A Good Long While" by laceymcbain for alicambs
"Only A Reflection" by gilda_elise for shirasade
"Reconnections" by madmogs for przed
"Return To Neverland" by byslantedlight for llamabitchyo
"Smoke Screen" by alicambs for llamabitchyo
"Storm Bringers" by akin19sk for hisluvpet
"What Lies Beneath" by probodie for gilda_elise
"Wrong" by shayheyred for faramir_boromir

Fan Art List by Artist
agentxpndble provided the untitled wallpaper duo (Quote by Buddha) & (Quote by Theodore Roethke)
enednoviel drew "Dark Bodie" and "Cocky Doyle" for blktauna
probodie provided the large batch of icons

watteaux provided the large batch of wallpapers (Order listed on page):
Caught Out
Caution
Date
Ladies
Doyle
Fetish
Fencing
Unspoken
Hearts
Touch

Fan Art List by Title
"Cocky Doyle" by enednoviel for blktauna
"Dark Bodie" by enednoviel for blktauna

Large batch of wallpapers by watteaux (Order by Title):
Caught Out
Caution
Date
Doyle
Fencing
Fetish
Hearts
Ladies
Touch
Unspoken

Untitled wallpaper (Quote by Buddha) by agentxpndble
Untitled wallpaper (Quote by Theodore Roethke) by agentxpndble

Untitled large batch of icons by probodie

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Summer of 78 Fan Art Addendum

from: taverymate
date: 24 November 2011 04:36 (UTC)
Link

*sigh* It's been a long day - hell a long year! - and I'm tired but there's really no excuse for forgetting to add this to the fan art info.

agentxpndble created all the gorgeous banners for each story posting and deserves credit for all the extra work!

Luckily, even though the story posts can no longer be found at summer_of_78, agentxpndble's last present of icon bases made from the banners is the only post remaining at the LJ community.

Do check it out for some lovely fan art. As agentxpndble said: "One last pressie from me... When I made the banners, I cropped out some icon bases wherever I could. Please feel free to use these as bases and add text if you want. Enjoy!"

The icon bases can be found here: http://summer-of-78.livejournal.com/10723.html

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Santa Pros 2005 Story List

from: taverymate
date: 24 November 2011 07:49 (UTC)
Link

Channelling Sherlock - I am on FIRE! *G* I went ahead and compiled a story list for santa_pros along with info on some additional content that was posted. Due to LJ comment length limits, I'm putting the additional content info in a separate comment.

santa_pros 2005 Story List by Date
1st of December: Half Lives by queenbamfie for przed
2nd of December: Blind Spot by shayheyred for madmogs
3rd of December: And Close The Path by sihayab for kiwisue
4th of December: Revealations by shirasade for brenk
5th of December: 'Trifles and Confirmations by londonronnie for queenbamfie
6th of December: Well Hall by kiwisue for shirashade
7th of December: Sunshine After Rain by probodie for sihayab
8th of December: In The Bleak Midwinter by brenk for akin19sk
9th of December: Comfort and Joy by przed for blktauna
10th of December: 'Tis The Season by nakeisha for s_c_enigma
11th of December: A Few Little Fireworks by madmogs for carodee
12th of December: The Rough With The Smooth by carodee for shayheyred
13th of December: Between Beer and Noodles by akin19sk for probodie
14th of December: Saturnalia by blktauna for londonronnie
15th of December: Not Just At Christmas a pinch-hit by brenk for nakeisha

santa_pros 2005 Story List by Author
akin19sk wrote Between Beer and Noodles for probodie
blktauna wrote Saturnalia for londonronnie
brenk wrote In The Bleak Midwinter for akin19sk
brenk wrote Not Just At Christmas a pinch-hit for nakeisha
carodee wrote The Rough With The Smooth for shayheyred
kiwisue wrote Well Hall for shirashade
londonronnie wrote 'Trifles and Confirmations for queenbamfie
madmogs wrote A Few Little Fireworks for carodee
nakeisha wrote 'Tis The Season for s_c_enigma
probodie wrote Sunshine After Rain for sihayab
przed wrote Comfort and Joy for blktauna
queenbamfie wrote Half Lives for przed
shayheyred wrote Blind Spot for madmogs
shirasade wrote Revealations for brenk
sihayab wrote And Close The Path for kiwisue

santa_pros 2005 Story List by Title
And Close The Path by sihayab for kiwisue
Between Beer and Noodles by akin19sk for probodie
Blind Spot by shayheyred for madmogs
Comfort and Joy by przed for blktauna
A Few Little Fireworks by madmogs for carodee
Half Lives by queenbamfie for przed
In The Bleak Midwinter by brenk for akin19sk
Not Just At Christmas a pinch-hit by brenk for nakeisha
Revealations by shirasade for brenk
The Rough With The Smooth by carodee for shayheyred
Saturnalia by blktauna for londonronnie
Sunshine After Rain by probodie for sihayab
'Tis The Season by nakeisha for s_c_enigma
'Trifles and Confirmations by londonronnie for queenbamfie
Well Hall by kiwisue for shirashade

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Santa Pros 2005 - Additional Content Info

from: taverymate
date: 24 November 2011 07:49 (UTC)
Link

IMPORTANT NOTE
However, I'm not sure if I actually have all the relevant posts from Santa Pros or not. I think there are gaps - probably due to my computer problems over the years - though I might turn up more saved files later on. But there MAY be additional content that I missed listing here.

IF anyone knows of other additional content that is not listed, PLEASE, comment here with the info. I'd be extremely grateful!

santa_pros 2005 ADDITIONAL CONTENT
The Professionals Canon Quiz by Queen Bamfie - Parts 1-4

Songvids
The Christmas Song sung by Nat King Cole & vidded by maidavids and s_c_enigma

2 DIFFERENT Versions - The Garth Brooks version is about a minute longer
God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen sung by Garth Brooks & vidded by maidavids and s_c_enigma
God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen sung by Nat King Cole & vidded by maidavids and s_c_enigma

NOTE: All three vids can be found on Mary Van Deusen's website along with 25 other wonderful Pros vids. Mary posts new vid announcements and remastering/revising announcements on maidavids and vidding.

Please note that while the three Christmas vids jointly created with s_c_enigma are listed on the main Pros page, they are not linked there. (It's an oversight that Mary will correct.) Instead, they are linked through the Christmas vids page. Look under the section Not Yet Remastered - By Fandom (Professionals); it's about halfway down the page.

Mary Van Deusen's Christmas Vids - Multiple fandoms including Pros
http://www.iment.com/maida/keepthissecret/songvids/xmassong.htm

Mary Van Deusen's Pros Vids
http://www.iment.com/maida/keepthissecret/songvids/prosong.htm

Fan Art
agentxpndble created all the gorgeous banners for each story posting.

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byslantedlight

Re: Santa Pros 2005 - Additional Content Info

from: byslantedlight
date: 24 November 2011 08:40 (UTC)
Link

You are brilliant! Thanks so much for all this, and I will indeed get it listed up at palelyloitering (when I get my laptop back - gargh! Any day now though, I hope, so hopefully it'll be the weekend at the latest)

I can go and find links for the stories too - and your mention of bamfie's canon quiz reminds me that I think that was the one she didn't actually ever post results for, so I made a post about that myself at Safehouse - that shouldn't have disappeared, and may even have all the questions in it! *g*... And even better, I went and found the post, and here are various related links:
Question and discussion re Santa Pros quiz on byslantedlight's lj
Definitive quiz answers as confirmed by queenbamfie
a follow-up post by kiwisue

The other thing I'm wondering is whether I've kept any specific links to posts via palelyloitering - I'll be able to do a search when I get my laptop back. If so, is there any chance the Wayback Machine might work on them...?

And I've just seen another comment you just made, so I'm off to send that email now! *g*

Edited at 2011-11-24 08:40 (UTC)

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shooting2kill

For the record and while I remember.....

from: shooting2kill
date: 24 November 2011 21:00 (UTC)
Link

I tried to find some of these stories a while back and Akin's Storm Bringers was particularly hard to locate but thankfully Alicambs's reccing site on dreamwidth provided the link:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3194934/1/Stormbringers

http://alicambs.dreamwidth.org/

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byslantedlight

Re: For the record and while I remember.....

from: byslantedlight
date: 25 November 2011 08:25 (UTC)
Link

Brilliant, thank you! I do forget that some people have archived to Fanfiction.net... We've actually managed to compile a list of links for most of the stories now - I did find this one in the end, but it was very hard to track down as you say, if only I'd waited until after your comment! *g*

Ali's recs are brilliant, and I reckon it's always worth reminding people - cheers!

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